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Wednesday, 26 January 2005

Comments

Sock Thief

There is some evidence for aspects of Brash's view on the DPB.

Chris

One simple question to a post full of half-truths, vitriol, revisionism, and even the downright denial of reality.

What do you think has enabled the unemployment rate to go down to 3.8%? Why is the economy booming? Why do we have such a huge surplus?

Please answer that.

Jordan

Because of the reforms of the 80s, 90s and this century;

Because of the record commodity price reforms;

Because New Zealanders are happier and more productive than they have been for a generation.

You may think it's "half truths, vitriol, revisionism and even the downright denial of reality" but you really should face the fact that it is the reality most people live with. Most people aren't as grumpy as you fringe right wingers.

I'm sorry if that happiness makes you feel bad. :)

Chris

I'm interested to know how you know I'm a 'fringe right-winger' - explain please?

New Zealanders' happiness doesn't make me feel bad - it's great. I love that our economy is doing well, and I know what caused it (as you do as well).

Unlike you, I want more of the same, so this country can reach its full potential, that's all.

I guess even if the Nat's don't win Labour will steal most of the policies anyway, as they did post Orewa. They'll continue to denounce Brash as a 'nasty right-winger' and move further towards the right themselves.

Oh sorry, that's right, it's called 'The Third Way'. I forgot. A.K.A the triump of the market economy.

Gooner

Jordan - reforms of 80's and 90's were nothing to do with this government. I'm unclear on what reforms this century have contributed to the current economic prosperity, Perhaps you could expand?

Moving people off benefits and into work is largely a result of a good economy - booming businesses need workers. As I have mentioned, the good economy and booming businesses has very little, if nothing, to do with the current government.

High commodity prices has nothing to do with this government.

Happier and productive? Happier, I'd say yes. Why? Economy, house prices, commodities basically. I would argue all three have very little to do with the current government, apart from perhaps house prices which school zoning has contributed to.

More productive? I doubt this is true in an economic sense. Businesses are operating at full capacity. There is no room to move there. Productivity is not improving, and won't until there is decent labour market reform.

I'm a fringe right winger and certainly not grumpy :). Happiness makes me feel happy. Duh.

Jordan

Gooner - glad to hear you're not unhappy. I know some people on the right who are decidedly unhappy with things going as well as they are.

Gooner

Jordan - not sure I'm totally happy about some of the social reforms, but I'm not like some who worry and lose sleep over it. At the end of the day, we have a chance to do something about it in October (or earlier- I don't discount that yet). I'm a bit like John Banks when he lost the mayorlty, I don't whinge or moan, too much to get on with for that!

David Farrar

Jordan - you forgot to mention that Jim Anderton's job machine is surely responisble for the low unemployment!

All those grants to Dick Hubbard have to have created at least a few thosand jobs. :-)

Anna

Gosh post that went on. "Yawn".

Jordan

Anna - quality analysis there ;)

David - 220,000 jobs? I don't think that Jim can take the credit for that...

Gooner

The state sector has increased threefold under this government. I think about 20,000 new jobs. Easy way to reduce unemployment aye!

geniusNZ

>Labour's Record

yes it is fairly stellar at least on the face of it.

> everyone who is able to work has the chance to do so.

the problem is that almost no one wants to work if there is no incentive and almost everyone will work if that incentive is high enough. It is jsut a matter of balancing how much pressure you wnat to put on people.

> Employment is an essential component of people's own self-respect

Only if you make it so. there is nothing intrinsic in a human that makes work required. Our society however creates incentives. these incentives are all interconnected if you make "not working" a plausible career path then employment will be less of a component of self respect because it is (almost entirely) learnt behaviour not genetic behaviour.

> even if we got to full employment with nobody on the dole (not likely) that still leaves about 225,000 people on health-related benefits or the DPB

are you really saying we have 225,000 people that sick that they cannot work at all?
for example
a number of people are defrauding the system one could reduce that number
a number of people are injured so they cannot do their profession but could do somthing else
a number of people are treatable but not being treated
etc..
lots of ways you could approach it

> We could probably dramatically cut the number of people on sickness and invalid benefits, on the DPB - and it might save some money. It would destroy lives, though.

it seems you still need a "brash" to think up these solutions even if labour adopts them because it is very hard for labour off its own bat to go into welfare reform. Personally I like greyshades UBI.

>You can't spend money twice.

I am indeed concerned national will "pull a bush" with spending plus tax cuts that they cannot back out of when the economy takes a down turn and the surplus that they plan to spend evaporates.

>If you really want to get benefits down to 200k people, there is probably only one way to do it: time limits.

I dont think arbitrary time limits would work.. they would be both unfair and inefficient.


>working situations without the protection of employment law.

why not a two part system - you negotiate a trial period and then negotiate a full contract after 1-3 months? where the salary is expected to be different/renegotiated between those two periods. (up or down)

> You're talking about tens of billions of dollars of tax cuts, to deliver something a more targeted approach delivers for far less.

there is nothign wrong with having a very low bottom tax rate. I suggest it is a very good idea. of course then you have to make up the difference in other tax brackets...... I dont see brash doing that.

Mellie

A nice post, Jordan. I think the 2 minutes that Don Brash spent on TV3 answering John Campbell's questions revealed the substance of his speech: a) he's inconsistent b)the welfare bill isn't going to sink the country.

I'm particularly worried about what he said about the 90-day period - all I can see there is an unconscious snubbing of working New Zealanders. Never mind that we need and want security of employment, never mind that three months into the job is a bloody long time to wait before you know if you'll be staying.

It indicates the lack of concern that the National Party really hold for workers. And if not the National Party, then Don Brash himself. Campbell wanted to talk about people, all Brash could do was reply with numbers. As an economist, it's quite clear that for him, workers rate right down there next to teenage mums on the DPB.

Max Soy

I believe that cutting benefits or making them harder to obtain and introducing work for the dole scheme (mostly schemes with no real employment-prospect raising potential, like in Oz) is counterproductive, because it does not help the people on benefits find jobs but simply punishes them further and makes it even more difficult for them to find work and come off welfare.

The majority of jobs that unemployed people eventually obtain are also not high-income ones and cutting welfare and reducing taxes would benefit mostly those who are on higher incomes, thus regressively redistributing money from the poor the rich. This runs counter to my personal social-democrat values.

I also think Brash is advocating a return to social-conservative values. Remember many of National's caucus favoured means-testing welfare benefits for same-sex couples based on partner income but did not wish to grant them other legal benefits - this is definitely what the Wizard of Oz wants here in Munchkinland. Double standards, perhaps.....

As for unemployment and the economy, sorry, but Labour managed to catch the high point of the economic cycle. It just happens to be in power at the right time - unemployment ebbs and flows and while governments do have some impact the overall global trends are as immutable as the tides of the ocean. In that regard your post sounds almost like a Howard-type propagandist - sorry. But I'm sure if I were in your position I'd play the scare tactics card too.

I look forward, finances permitting, to contributing to the Clark re-election in Aotearoa Polis later in the year.

Matt

Really good analysis. Pity so many of the people posting comments are stuck in bizarre right-wing tribal views of reality that really only still retain any support in 3rd world countries like the US and China. I think some of those national party blog-hacks need to go out and get a job and contribute to the more tolerant, happy and productive NZ that's developed under the 5th Labour Govt.

Steve

Nice post Jordan :) Glad to see you still hard at work. Things going to plan I should be back from Japan in time to campaign this year.

James

Well written piece Jordan, and you make a lot of very good points, but really I think you are being very charitable to old Mr Brash.

Mr Brash, head of the Reserve Bank at a time when the Reserve Bank policy was to hold unemployment at a certain minimum level to keep a downward pressure on wages, and therefore on inflation.

Mr Brash, who with every sentence of his first Orewa speech revealed bias against the Maori and seeked - successfully - to divide the country in the very way he was warning against.

Mr Brash, who uses politically correct rhetoric in which to couch pessimistic, elitist, bigoted ideas that appeal to the lowest, lynch mob type drives that we all have (some in smaller doses than others), to create grievances where there are none, to bring out the worst of racism and classism that has been dormant and ebbing away for years.

Yes, his speeches are comparable to Bush's because in them he tries to bring out the very worst in all of us: fear. Fear of some impending disaster if he is not at the helm.

He may be a very nice man in person, but in political and business life I find his actions and speeches absolutely deplorable. He can just bugger right off.

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