A conservative, or liberal, country?

One of the emerging themes of the election campaign is National's turn to a more conservative mindset. This has been visible for some time: on Treaty issues, on civil rights for gay and lesbian New Zealanders, on immigration, on welfare - the opposition are running very hard, conservative positions that are quite different to where National sat last time it was in government.

Because I am to a significant degree a liberal, on social issues, this makes me uncomfortable. I don't believe that tapping into people's darker instincts by vilifying small sectors of the population is a legitimate way of doing politics, and have always been rather proud of the fact that since I began paying attention to politics, both major parties stayed away from that sort of thing.

Now though it appears to be changing. Labour stands as the only major political party dedicated to an inclusive, diverse New Zealand, which acknowledges people come in all different shapes, sizes and colours, and refuses to engage in cheap targeting to win votes.

I happen to think that Labour's take on these issues is rather truer to Kiwis' point of view than National's is. National at 40% in the polls is not relying on conservatism; that only buys a few votes. The parties of the liberal and left spectrum (ACT, Labour, Greens, Progressives) clearly score more points in the polls than the parties of the conservative right or centre (National, NZ First, United Future).

Most kiwis believe in a fair go, and while it is a testament to some smart tactics from National that they've managed to make fairness (characterised as "PC") a dirty word, in the longer run that kind of politics has no future here.

Liberal voters need to think seriously about what a vote for National means. It means a vote for reaction, a step back to the past. While that's sad, it's true.

Comments

[sock thief]

depends a bit on one's choice of definitions. To me, the Greens are a religious, not progressive, party that have damaged and will damage again the centre-Left.

i also happen to believe that sticking religiously to a 20 yr old anit-nuclear policy is very conservative, in the negative sense of that word.

Labour's attack line is that National is some radical hard right social conservative party. But that has as much to do with reality as those on the right that think that Labour is socialist. And it is also scaremongering and vilifying. So not much moral high ground there.

[Tom S]

I think what we are really seeing here is National trying to use American style politics to win power. Funded by yanks, beholden to yanks, enthralled by the yanks. Thats National 2005 for you. The party of the craven cultural cringe, which I suppose is you should expect when their leader talks and walks like he has just woken up from a 50 year sleep in a Dunedin gun emplacement. Someone should tell Rip Van Brash that the Americans "saved us" at Midway 64 years ago, not just before he fell asleep.

Unlike the benighted USA, New Zealand has a solid tradition of inclusive, moderate, pragmatic, progressive and mildly liberal politics. Yet again, the parties of the faceless corporations (ACT and Brashite National) are bent on smashing a native political culture so as to deliver to its big business mates a plaint, divided and easily ruled society.

I sincerely believe this election is a battle for the soul of the nation. Thats why its becoming a two way fight. Its the intolerance of the new fascists (I don't think the term to strong) and the dying gasp of Rob's mob vs. tomorrow's New Zealand.

National under Brash is all about a hard right neo-conservative agenda. Its a formula for a house divided against itself and a formula for disaster. Don Brash seems to see himself as the Colonel Walter E. Kurtz of New Zealand politics, determined to destroy the village to save it.

[RWDB]

"I don't believe that tapping into people's darker instincts by vilifying small sectors of the population is a legitimate way of doing politics"

As opposed to bribing small sectors of the population with interest-free loans?

[Paul]

This is a good read.

http://www.critic.co.nz/showfeature.php?id=2882

I've never understood why someone would want, for the sake of being reactionary, to be anti PC?

[Paul]

RWDB,

if you call half a million and thier families a small sector.

Mind you, you guys can't even decide what mainstream is.

I swear it's that guy in Titahi bay, you know the one, good garde, curtains pulled. Off to work each morning. (I reckon his eyes are too close together)

[Insolent Prick]

Here's a basic fact, Jordan.

The family unit is the basis of all successful societies. Just because so many current Cabinet ministers have no regard for the family unit, and just because National respects the rights of families, does not mean National is tapping into the "darker side".

You're free to have your own prejudices. Taken to their natural course, your ideal society would further promote the rights of every pandering, liberal, slimy special-interest group that you can bribe. The problem with that society is that it doesn't last. Mainstream New Zealanders fund all the social benefits that you want to toss around to your special friends. Alienate them, as you and the Labour Party do by ignoring them as you do, and mainstream New Zealanders will stop engaging with Government.

Just because National focusses on the needs and aspirations of mainstream New Zealanders, while you pander to the fringe, does not mean that National is intolerant of the fringe. They have a right to do what they want. They don't have the right to be granted special privileges over the mainstream.

[Paul]

IP

define "family"

I could give you about 2 dozen.

I thought the economic unit was the basis for all your screwy neocon buddies.

Define "mainstream"

Aparently half a million students and their families aren't?

And sorry, but a big fat WRONG "They don't have the right to be granted special privileges over the mainstream"

They do.

If they wern't exposed to prejudices by the state, law, business, neighbours etc etc etc, they of course we wouldn't need too.

Until these "non mainstream" people are treated with respect and fairly, then they do need help.

[Insolent Prick]

Mainstream New Zealanders are hard-working folk who believe they have the right to express their own views, participate in economic life to their fullest extent, live within a legal system that promotes personal safety, and contribute to the well-being of themselves and their families.

It does not include those who believe that the State owes them a living, and that they have no contribution to make to their own personal development.

That pretty much rules out the entire Labour Party and its corrupt, hand-out cronies.

[James]

The individual is the "basis" of ALL human interaction and relationships because only the individual exists,everything else,Family,Society,etc is just an abstraction from the starting point which is the individual.The Socialist Left and The Conservative Right both ignore this fact of reality and try to use collectivist means to control what is a sovereign being in both the economic and the social spheres.Jordan makes good points and gets marks from me for acknowledging that ACT is a Liberal party.(With some kinks needing ironing out,granted)but the fact is missed is that all the strife and problems being debated here and elsewhere only occur because we keep trying to "fix" man at the social level when all that is needed is to free him/her at the individual level and for the State to protect his/her natural rights at THAT level.Everything else takes care of its self.

[Gooner]

Tom S:

"Its the intolerance of the new fascists (I don't think the term to strong) and the dying gasp of Rob's mob vs. tomorrow's New Zealand".

Get a life Tom. That's something I thought only Millsy would spew out. Twit.

[Simon]

I would not worry about Tom S. The good thing about people like Tom S and Millsy is that Labor has to accommodate their opinions thus disqualifying Labor from ever being NZs natural party. The fact that the Greens think they can run the next government together with Labor is also fairly damning.

[Paul]

limpidy dickity

"Mainstream New Zealanders are hard-working folk who believe they have the right to express their own views, participate in economic life to their fullest extent, live within a legal system that promotes personal safety, and contribute to the well-being of themselves and their families."

Cool that's everyone then.

Shame they don't all vote National. they don't know what they're missing out on.

[Paul]

"this fact of reality"

god don't you hate it when the right play common sence politics.

Who's common sense?

makes sense!

[Michael]

What concerns me is the name-throwing that Labour has resorted to.

'Pro-American', 'Racist', 'Greedy', 'for their corporate buddies' etc. have replaced critiques of National Party policy by the left.

The best proof is the left-side uproar over National's 'Iwi/Kiwi' billboard. People who label it racist are either arguing that 'Iwi' aren't a subgroup of 'Kiwi' or that 'Iwi' do own the beaches. It would only be racist if National want to prevent Maori from going to the beach.

When anyone critiques Labour policy they have their guts pulled out and sprayed all over town. (Just like Mr O'Donovan from Westpac.)

Basically, Labour are full of shit if you think you have the high moral ground.

[Paul]

Sorry Michael,

it's racist in that it is divisionary and non sensical.

The right Limp Prick etc don't really seem to be above the name calling, "pinko commie", & your delightful "Labour are full of shit"

Mr O'Donovan hardly had his guts sperad out and about.

on that though, if he wants to critique something he's putting it out in the public sphere and people are welcome to come back at him.

[Jake]

Tom S said - "National under Brash is all about a hard right neo-conservative agenda"

IMO: Brash is a liberal, he is by no means a neo-conservative. He is economically liberal (perhaps neo-liberal), and socially fairly middle of the road. The national party, however, (and this would stop me voting for them) are largely conservative, as is their constituency.

[Michael]

Thanks Paul for explaining the Iwi/Kiwi debate - it's racist because some disagree with it.

That makes Labour just as racist because I (and many others) don't agree with Labour's Maori Affairs policy. But we don't hear National calling Labour a 'bunch of racists', do we?

Thanks for proving that Labour are full of shit if they think they have the moral high ground.

[weizguy]

Whether intentionally or not (and I go with the former), the Iwi/Kiwi Billboards generate a feeling of opposition.

Labour v National
Iwi v Kiwi

Unless you are arguing that National and Labour aren't opposed...?

You can be as cute as you like. We all know why that billboard was created, and we can all recognise (sadly) why it was successful.

[Arcon]

Rubbish.

The billboard does no such thing. Unless, as someone pointed out, Iwi aren't included in Kiwi.

If the billboard said:

"Beaches are for Sally, Tom and Fred/ Kiwi"...

...it wouldn't be an anti-Sally,Tom,Fred billboard. It would simply be a billboard that said beaches are for all Kiwis.

To claim that it is a racist billboard is either lazy thinking, or simply convenient thinking.

[weizguy]

"To claim that it is a racist billboard is either lazy thinking, or simply convenient thinking."

To claim otherwise is simply dishonest. The billboards were a cynical (if successful) effort to pander to anti-Maori sentiment.

All of the other billboards establish a juxtaposition between Labour and National. Are you saying that this one is the exception.

In addition, is it just coincidence that Don Brash's "Mainstream" (read "Kiwi") doesn't include Maori?

[tim barclay]

The Labour Party has its collection of prejudices too Jordan. Listen to them go on about the so called rich. It is also quite unimaginative and conservative when it comes to how essential services such as education and health services should be delivered. It takes a highly prejudiced attitude to people of different political pursuasion and actively discriminates against people of a different political view. I regard the Labour Party as intensely conservative save for one or two areas related to gay sex and relationships.

[Craig Ranapia]

Humm... reminds me of those first year pols tutorials where nobody is quite sure what 'conservative' or 'liberal' really means, but the former is really, really bad while the latter is really, really good.

And. my God, it took me about 24 hours to get so fucking sick to see the usual parade of nitwits and wankers talking about "mainstream"/"ordinary" New Zealanders they, and only they, represent. Helen, Don - pick up the clue phone. Tell me what you believe and why you think I should support it. Just shit can the Borg Queen routine. It's intellectually and politically dishonest, and you're both smart enough to know it.

[James]

I'd always prefer a genuine conservative to a liberal.

[RWDB]

You lefties are such transparently dishonest wankers it is astounding.

Just as a billboard that said "19th century: Men vote/20th century: Kiwis vote" is not anti-Men, sexist or bigoted, nor is the Iwis/Kiwis billboard racist or anti-Maori.

You KNOW that the billboard is not racist. But you say that it is for the purposes juvenile partisan attacks, and because you adore calling your opponents racist and will jump on any excuse to do so.

There is no such thing as an honest leftie.

[Logix]

RWDB your curious counter example "Just as a billboard that said "19th century: Men vote/20th century: Kiwis vote" is not anti-Men, sexist or bigoted" begs the question, just what would message such a billboard be trying to convey? The answer of course would be; it depends on the context.

In the context of this election what this billboard taps into is pakeha resentment of uppity browns who are now swinging somewhat social, economic and political clout than some folk are comfortable with. Twenty years ago we all knew what a kiwi was, but few had heard the term iwi, outside of Maori circles. Few more brown boys driving round in flasher cars than you can afford eh!. And all this government and local body running off and grovelling to iwi at the drop of every hat goes down a treat at the Cosie club everytime.

The billboard per se is not racist, but it nonetheless is designed to appeal to racist attitudes, and worse still lend such attitudes an entirely unfortunate respectability.

[Lucyna]

Logix, how do you know that the "pakeha resentment" in the way that you describe exists? Is this the way you feel for the reasons you list? It's certainly not how I feel, if you're talking for me.

[Pete]

Is Simon actually Lynton Crosby, what with all his 'Labor' this and 'Labor' that.
Get a clue you silly Aussie. At least if you want to interfere in our politics get Brash to teach you how to spell LABOUR.
You’ll be much more authentic then

[Paul]

RWDB,

by the very definition of pitting one powerless group of society against the vast powerful ruling group, and add to that dimension race, it is racist.

I agree, by my definition Labour has acted with racist actions or at the very least completely disrespectfully towards Maori, or FSB would not have been.

It's always the way, the smug intelligentia fails to recognise the evils of which it perpetuates. I bet you all have nice Maori friends possibly an acceptable gay friend which makes a nice mix at dinner parties.

It's very very easy to look at Australia an go "they're racist, look how they treat the abbos", yet Maori and PI are over represented in most poor socio-economic indicators.

So then to pit 'mainstream' Kiwis against Iwi (in the negative as opposed to the anthropological) is disgusting divisionist right wing politics.

[tim barclay]

Paul, Labour practises the same game but in a different way. How could they be different if they aspire to be government of this narrow bigoted little country.

[Paul]

Tim

I agree, Labour has shafted Maori big time. that is why they are behind in all of the Maori seats to the Maori party. It's not rocket science.

As for narrow biggoted country, I beg to differ. Uneducated, thus ill informed is how I see it.

[Mike Collins]

Paul,

Hope you weren't meaning me when you were talking about the guy from Titahi Bay? Incedentally what were you meaning?

[rightkiwi]

Jordan says:

"Because I am to a significant degree a liberal, on social issues, this makes me uncomfortable. I don't believe that tapping into people's darker instincts by vilifying small sectors of the population is a legitimate way of doing politics, and have always been rather proud of the fact that since I began paying attention to politics, both major parties stayed away from that sort of thing."

This sentiment is widely shared on the right and there are increasing concerns about National's willingness to play Peters' game. This creates an opportunity for ACT should it want to take it up.

[Paul]

Mike,

(I like titahi bay, I've got buddies theree).

What I mean was that with all of those in which Brash is excluding from his non definition of 'mainstream', all we are left with is some guys from morrinsville, or Linwood or anytown NZ.

His mainstream kiwi is a very very specalised fellow (gender non specific - but I doubt women are mainstream)

[Clint]

As mentioned before by Weizguy

"You can be as cute as you like. We all know why that billboard was created, and we can all recognise (sadly) why it was successful"

It was successful because it was right. Most people identified with its simple message. It is a pity that all these clever remarks from the Nats are drying up already.

[Paul]

Clint, despite your over confident Clint Eastwood - Prebble's Rebels bash the left attitude, how does one equate an under educated public who's main source of informaiton is talk radio and the garden fence, where Maori are nothing but a race to be bandied about as if they get everything and deserve nothing.

Except the opostie is quite true.

Clint, you'd be horrified by todays lot at Otago, Prebbles lot have all gone to ground and normal transmission has resumed, student politics of sticking it to the man, not ideological bandwagoning.

[Clint]

Hi Paul, I think you underestimate the NZ public which surprises me.
Anybody I talk to about NZ politics seems to have a healthy opinion and knowledge of what is going on whether right or left.

I have kept in touch with the going ons at Otago as well. I hear it isn't the same as it was... but once we wipe out the student unions I will sleep easier :)

I aint bashing the left though - I think the thing that winds me up more is overconfident Nats.. you guys are fine as I fully expect confidence :)

[Paul]

Clint, you sound most intelligent, yet there seems to be some pathelogical fear of student unions.

"once we wipe out the student unions I will sleep easier."

Bugger am I missing something, do they have death squads running around in the middle of the night breaking into student flats. Stealing first born of the Indian family running the dairy near the campus. Holding the economy to ransom with radical leftist views? who would have thought that the economic impact of the Student union was so unstabling for the country.

Sorry, taking the piss. Is that a fight worth loosing sleep over? It's like getting a ulcer over the North East Valley Knitting Leagues structure of governence, and seemingly lack of accountability.

[Clint]

Yeah I know what you mean Paul,
I agree... time to move on etc... I just saw a lot of double standards and smarmy/smug arrogance from those in power in those Unions that I thought was unnecessary on campus. Workplace unions are legitimate, but I saw little sense in these ones existing.

More things to worry about I think, starting with why Dunne always seems to turn on that damn worm. That's disturbing. Should write a rant about that on my blog :)