Brash on powhiri: Relic #2

Another delightful story, this time about how Don Brash thinks that powhiri are an embarrasing sort of thing. His Christchurch radio extract is most illuminating - a friend sent me the transcript:

PRESENTER:  What about the haka before an All Black rugby test?  Is it a good look?

BRASH:  I'm very comfortable and relaxed about that.  I'm more relaxed about that than I am about some of the official welcomes that foreign visitors get.  They must what wonder kind of country they get when the only official welcome they have is? is a Maori New Zealander jumping around half naked.  I mean, I think there is a place for Maori culture but why is it that we always use a semi-naked male, sometimes quite pale-skinned Maori, leaping around in, you know, mock battle?

PRESENTER:  So next time Her Majesty comes to see the dominion, if you are prime minister, will you spare her a powhiri?

BRASH:  I think, as I say, there is a place for powhiri.  I guess what I'm really saying is we surely need some other ways of greeting visitors?

PRESENTER:  Like how?

BRASH:  ?only powhiri.  Well, I mean, European culture has got lots of traditional ways of welcoming visitors.  A powhiri is a particularly Maori way of doing it?

PRESENTER:  Yeah.

BRASH:  ?and there certainly is a place for that.

PRESENTER:  But what would you do instead?  A handshake or what?

BRASH:  I think in many cases a handshake or a? an honour guard or something is all that's appropriate.

PRESENTER:  Okay, we'll take a break.

This is such a priceless example of cultural cringe it makes me sick. This man seems to be ashamed of New Zealand. Why would he want to lead it? You get the impression he'd be more comfortable if the whole of New Zealand was just like Devonport or something.

 

Comments

[tim barclay]

Well I happen to think someone standing semi naked and poking their tongue out as deeply offensive, and incredibly embarrssing when it is done to the Queen and other important people. Except I think on most occasions is not intended to be insulting so it is tolerable - just. But I bet the maori are laughing behind their guests backs saying how they pocked their tongues at a whole lot of honky tossers. Saying all this behavior is New Zealand culture is cultural cringe especially from honkies who are dead ignorant about things maori - like you Jordan.

[Paul]

What an ignorant arrogant stupid racist FUCK!!!.

This is the CULTURE of THIS country!!!

When the Queen etc visit Africa they are greeted by (dare I say it to offend Brash or Tim) bare breasted woen.

This guy is the biggest joke that would ever represent this country. I'd go further this guy needs a bloody bullet!!!

Tim, I'd also like to add you to this mix, Racist Bastards!!!!

[Paul]

Jesus it keeps getting worse.

""I mean, I think there is a place for Maori culture but why is it that we always use a semi-naked male, sometimes quite pale-skinned Maori, leaping around in, you know, mock battle?""

Eugenics, Racism and stupidity all wrapped into a white old rich man suit. For christ sake. Why the hell did I buy a bloody newspaper today to get that crap.

"Dr Brash said yesterday his reference to "pale-skinned Maori" was meant as a judgment on how much Maori heritage performers claimed.

Eugenics!!!

I've got a Vernier, lets start measuring noses, foreheads etc.

Fucking tosser and there is no way I am appologising for language here when we've got a pretender to the top job with such stuupidly and overtly racist principals!!!

[tim barclay]

Go Labour, the only people who think you are not rascist bastards are yourselves. Maori do not make fine distictions between Labour rascists and National rascists. They see them all as honkies. Same things for gays, the Labour Party goes quite homohobic when they do not get political support. The Labour Party is manipulating people for political support and then turns ugly when they do not get it.

[Paul]

Absolute bullshit Barclay, haven't you got anything better to do on a beautiful Sunday morning that making a complete and utter ashole of yourself in support the remarks of a racist/eugneics conservative with no understanding of what it is to be a Kiwi.

Sure we love the Haka, but we'd hate to extend any other Maori custom to this country.

There is no place on any planet in any whay shape or form, this sort of thinking, remarks and endoresment.

The country has a clear choice now.

Racism and Eugenics vs endorsement of Kiwi culture including Maori, Pacific Islanders, Asian etc etc.

[Paul]

We should all read Russell Brown's latest installment.

One word Superb!!!!!

http://publicaddress.net/default,hardnews.sm

Dammed Scotts and their Parliament.

[soren.lorenson]

the man has lost it, and Helen has been a little quiet of late. I say she has a bomb and she's going to detonate it sometime after the 12th.

Powhiri isn't about some half naked dude poking his tongue out. Taking your shirt off and poking your tongue out is a half naked dude poking his tonogue out. Some pretty selective reading going on here.

And this bit: Well, I mean, European culture has got lots of traditional ways of welcoming visitors. A powhiri is a particularly Maori way of doing it

to whcih I can only add: we aren't in Europe. You silly old man. that's why it doesn't snow at Christmas.

[pacman]

Not entering the race debate but I am not so sure Pauls Scotish Parliment analogy works in NZ. RB kind of plays as if the UK is a country however Scotland and Wales are separate COUNTRIES within the UK. It is not at all strange for them to have a separate parliament similar to the federal / state parliaments in Aussie also.

[Gooner]

Jordan, Devonport is now full of greenies and chardonnay socialists. Not sure Brash wants NZ to be like that.

If you don't want Brash as PM, I have some bad news for you via the latest Colmar Brunton TV1 poll out tonight.

[Aj]

Don's favourite childhood book:

"Noddy and Big Ears"

[Anon]

Brash says he's "very comfortable and relaxed about" the All Black haka. What an odd thing to say. Most people think the All Black haka is FANTASTIC! What the fuck has "comfort" got to do with it?

[GeniusNZ]

> This is the CULTURE of THIS country!!!

No - that is the culture of some of our ancestors and also the culture some people say SHOULD be our culture. Our actual culture is watching TV playing a bit of out door sports, drinking some alcohol after work and so forth. And thus NZ greetings tend to involve handshakes and hugs and so forth. I haven't ever been greeted with a maori ceremony when visiting my neighbours houses.

The debate here, is not one of whether we should greet with our culture, but why we should pick some obscure part of our culture that you think is important.

[JW]

Anon,
Maybe Brash means that he is comfortable for the All BLack Haka to stay and won't legislate it away.

[Adolf Fiinkensein]

Colmar Brunton just put your ogre eight points ahead of your angel. Jordan, have you ever been to Devonport? Do you know how many Maori people live there? Hundreds, many of whom are in the Navy. I'd rather see NZ like Devonport than like Ponsonby.

[soren.lorenson]

I want to not be embarrased for my country any more. I feel embarrassed enough that 'our' flag has someone else's flag in it.

I feel embarrassed that our Head of State lives twelve time zones away, and that we swear an oath of fidelity to and enter unto contract with a person who probably couldn't find nine out of ten places in New Zealand on a map.

I feel embarrassed that some people are so damn ashamed (for no good reason) of their nation and what's in it they still have to use the symbols of a nation which gave us full self-determination 98 years ago and abandoned us economically three decades ago. the hell? we're like those people who still live at home when they're 34.

[Peter McK]

jordan

i missed the one news poll tonight- do you have details - The oly bit I saw was that More prople still prefer Clark as PM to Brash - that must be the good news worth spinning - just ignore the rest if it is not good for the left

ha ha ha ha ha

but still 12 more days for the Popular and competent PM to prove the country still loves socialism and social engineering

ha ha ha ha ha

[GeniusNZ]

Labour still has time to offer a big taxcut to the poor and middle class.
As i noted before labour can ALWAYS outbid national in tax cuts.
they can pay for it by adding another top tax rate like australia - afterall you wouldnt want to be uncompetitive with australia.

[GeniusNZ]

Wait - I have a better idea.. capital gains tax and a tax cut for every working NZder and a better tax cut (total) than national for 51% of NZders.

[Paul]

Peter McK

you arrogant fuck!! So nice to be gracious isn't it.

I've had enough of all of this shit.

I wouldn't actually mind loosing to a guy who I don't agree with, but who isn't going to be dangerous to this country. I couldn't care one bit if his politics was torry conservative economic of appease the rich and screw the poor, but any tosser that plays the race card as loosely and a cavalierly, with complete disregard for those whom it is going to hurt the most.

Good luck to the lot of ya, if this is how we are destined to live for the next 3 years.

Sorry for the languae today guys, but wee have too far in this country with too much still to do, and with way too much at stake (just look at Australia's race record).

Pacman, OK, (if Scotish sepratism doesnt' work for ya), look at Canada where individual Nations have their own parliaments based on race and on the whole they are a pretty good example of what can be done, see the Nisga Nation.

[Craig Ranapia]

Paul:

Oh calm down white man. I actually agree with Brash - I've squirmed my way though enough powhiri that aren't only inappropriate to the occasion, but not explained to the manuhiri. So does this expand knowledge of and respect for part of this country's rich cultural heritage? Not much. Well-intentioned plastic Tiki tokenism is still tokenism.

It would actually be nice if, say, the next time a Chinese official visited New Zealand s/he was formally welcomed by representatives of this country's Chinese communities. Despite what some brown neck bigots in my whanau think, they're just as much a part of this country's culture as we are.

[Paul]

Craig,

I'd be very calm, if this was in isolation, but how many times over the last year has he played the race card.

It's a theme, and it's bullshit.

[Too Right]

Go to David Farrar for the poll results.

Apparently most of the poll was taken before National's treaty policy was announced. And befiore the PM stiffed the poor Air NZ pilot for telling it like it was.

Therefore: Expect more bad news for the Left if the rabid reds published here are to be believed.

Ah, it's good to be a conservative.

[Gooner]

And during the time the email leak became known. Looks like the electorate doesn't care/isn't scared about the 'far right' *threat*. So, Paul, you lose that one because I believe the polls over you.

[James]

Good on Don for saying what many have thought for so long...and shame on Paul and other debasers of Maori who pretend to care a damm about them...Labours legacy to Maori is one of contempt and treating them as vote fodder if fed enough dependancy...sickening!

[Paul]

Gooner.

I don't loose economically, I DO loose personally. I get a huge fuck off tax cut under that fuckwit.

Maori loose and the country looses, but you arrogant tossers are so bloody concerned about your own back pockets and couldn't give a shit about what sort of country we are going to live in.

But enjoy your supreme arrogance Too Right and Goonie, it speaks volumes about the care and compassion that you show towards your fellow Kiwis, or more correctly Maori.

[david@tokyo]

Why does everything have to be about race for the lefties? Don is commenting on the relevance of this type of welcome, and I see where he is coming from - maybe I'm rather ignorant of Maori culture, but what I understand of the protocol that he's refering to is about the host ensuring that the guest/visitor is indeed a friend not a foe, and isn't going to suddenly start slitting people's throats as soon as they are admitted inside the paa / onto the marae.

Traditions and cultures evolve, and given that tribal warfare hasn't been a feature in New Zealand for longer than the oldest living person in NZ, and that we can be sure our foreign visitors aren't going to indulge is such barbarous behaviour, one does have to question the ongoing relevance of this. Particularly so when you imagine what the foreign dignatories must be thinking as they have it explained to them that "this is all just to make sure you are really on our side" even though in this day and age we tend to use diplomacy and even sometimes agree to disagree. If I were a foreign dignatory, this sort of stuff would strike me as quaint tokenism.

The All Blacks have had the right idea by adding a new, more relevant haka to their repertoire. And isn't it fantastic .

Isn't it time that those in Maoridom think about modernising their welcomes, and while they are at it, also learning to give women the equal status that other cultures afford them? Ultimately, up to them, but if their traditions lose their relevance I see no particular reason why those in charge look to other more relevant substitutes, as Don suggests.

All this said, come to think of it, the left always have had a tendancy to think that "culture" and "tradition" is about being stuck in an eternal timewarp. Such an example is the leftist thinking that whaling by indigenous peoples is only OK so long as the natives are out there in canoes with spears, and not employing modern outboard motors and far more humane genade-tipped harpoons. But then they also think that modern techniques will inevitably lead to the extinction of species, never mind the Alaskans proving them wrong right to this day, and the historical reality that Maori did hunt species to extinction using more primitive hunting instruments.

[Paul]

James,

oh the shame for having empathy and care towards Maori.

I agree, Labour have been pathetic, but to be reckless is reprehensible.

You're right out of Radio Pacific mate, "good on you don for saying what we've been thinking". This is EXACTLY why its so bloody destructive, a self perpetuating belief that Maori can be a poltical tool with scant disregard for those whom it affects.

And get your facts right, I vote green and don't 'pretend' to care about Maori.

For christs sake, I'm meant to be ashamed, what a completely screwed up world you lot live in.

[Paul]

David,

how was your Whale soup "for research only of course" today.

Fantastic simplification of the ideals of the left. Many of us find whaling abhorent whether its for tradition or not, but at least the traditional reasons are up front and not hiding behind "research".

"Isn't it time that those in Maoridom think about modernising their welcomes".

Cool, txt welcomes, how about emails. What a load of bollocks. How about a Rap, che bro.

[Psycho Milt]

Sigh - yes, Leftists think culture and tradition is about being stuck in an eternal timewarp. This is why conservative parties around the world are noted for their constant rejection of tradition and willingness to embrace the modern.

Most politicians and diplomats who visit other countries are capable of figuring out that foreigners do things differently to them, and therefore aren't surprised when this is suddenly expressed in concrete terms right before their eyes. Dr Brash is just embarrassed at the thought of having fellow suits greeted by a half-naked savage - how would it make him look?

[Peter McK]

Paul - thanks for the reaction - PMSL - David Hodo sends his regards too -

time is running out for socialism - it is going to be an interesting week - The banshee is going to be especially nasty this week - and that will just then more prople against her as she shows her true colours.

Cullen (PhD History) will also be at his nasty best to anything and everything blue - While Brash / Key / all Nats will be Cool calm and collected but briming with confidence brimming - I will offer a word of caution - The Nats team will need to continue their careful planning and keep the ship together - victory is is sight - but it is not over till The Prime Ministess cries.

Then we can look forward to another glorious 9 years of Blue rule.

[Adolf Fiinkensein]

What are you lefties going to do if Little Donny starts to poll over 50%? Paul will have run out of expletives. You realise of course, now such a prospect is highly likely? This latest poll takes no account of Clark's Pontius Pilot act or of Dr Brash's highly sensible Treaty policy speech. It actually reflects the contempt with which voters viewed the ridiculous 'e-mail' affair which was trumpeted by you idiots and your media friends.

It aint going to be a lanslide, it's going to be a tsunami. You'd better watch out or Labour will finish up as the junior party in opposition. You might not even get as many seats as ACT.

[Paul]

Peter McK

Bring on thursday night and lets see the slimey old arsehole justify racism and his inability to acknowledge the place that Maori have in this country.

He's a dangerous and divisive person, he know's what he's doing and that makes it even worse.

[david@tokyo]

Paul, Psycho,

If the left doesn't believe that traditions shouldn't be stuck in a timewarp, then why aren't they voicing disappointment that "women at the back because it's Maori custom" isn't being thrown out with the trash?

So much for embracing modern ideas? You're already 100 years late (^_^)

And Paul,
Research whaling has nothing to do particularly with Alasakan whaling, but I suspect you have been suckered by Greenpeace and other such fund-raising entities. Collectively these groups rake in billions more in donations than whale meat sales amount to globally (a figure which is also less than the cost of the research programmes via which they are legally taken). Surely you can see that Greenpeace, IFAW and other SSN members have a vested interest in making urbanised westerners believe that whales need to be "saved".

The Icelanders wrote a letter to the Australians the other day which might be enlightening:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050824/dcw024.html?.v=23

The Australian response was typically illogical, uneducated/unadvised, emotional, yet also thoroughly unsurprising (politicians have different motivations to fund-raising groups, but their goal happens to co-incide):
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,16453940-2,00.html

But then at least some Australians have a clue:
http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,16470661-5001022,00.html

[Paul]

Addie,

why the arrogance? What is to be gained from being such an arrogant prat!! You're in front and I now have no doubt that National is going to win the election, and yes your pockets will all be a little better, but this country (and mark my words) is going to be culturally and socially the worse.

But if that's an acceptable consequence of arrogance.

How can you people not think what he said was Bullshit. I just don't get it????

Expletives, you ain't heard anything yet, but they will be reserved for bullshit justificiation of racism!!!

For fucks sake you guys and 'the don' really know how to ruin a perfectly good fathers day.

As stated earlier, I'd be happy to loose to a party that doesn't use the misconceptions of race as a political tool.

Appeal to the back pocket fine, but foster something that is reprehensible - F--- Off!!!

[Paul]

David,

I'll leave your defence of whaling, so Greenpeace wants to save the whales to make money, YouTossing Idiot.

There are many people in the world to whom there are greater things in the world than money. But we all know greenpeace is about profit margins and a return to the shareholder, Idiot!!!

As for you observations of what is happening culturally from afar.

The debate within Maori as to the role of Women, is a vibrant and evoling issue for Maoridom. We are allowed influence, but ultimately Maori need to sort that one out.

[Aj]

david@:~

"come to think of it, the left always have had a tendancy to think that "culture" and "tradition" is about being stuck in an eternal timewarp"

Please check out the 'Brash on knighthoods: Relic #1' thread.

[Aj]

Paul, I support your comments regarding ther race card entirely, but personally I wouldn't waste the explectives.
It is a sad but entirely tragic fact of life that certain breeds of politicians will do ANYTHING to gain power. You don't have to look far, Howard, or far back, Hitler.

[Paul]

Aj.

Golden rule number one on Fathers day (my second as a dad), Don't check your emails and surf the web when you've had a fantastic day.

Racist power hungry bastards will always ruin it for you.

[Aj]

Paul.

Then you have two great reasons to be cheerful even if the world is a slightly depressing place.

:-)

[Paul]

Tell me about it.

At least at 2 years old, my wee man knows nothing of racism and never fails to make me giggle out loud all day long.

[Craig Ranapia]

OMG, Aj, please tell me you're not seriously comparing Brash to Hitler. Immediate invocation of Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies, I think...

Paul:
You are really determined to turn me into an anti-white racist, aren't you? If my (white) mother sees any woman being treated with disrespect on our marae, she is not going to take any shit from anyone. And bully to her.

Get over the white liberal cringe, boy - you not only demean yourself, you patronise me.

[Aj]

If the shoes fits....

[Paul]

My battle is not with you Craig, I don't speak for you, I don't expect to speak for you, and I do not pretend to patronise you.

I'd love your mother to speak up anywhere anytime, that is her want, re-read my post it's not my battle.

I do however have a family that has dedicated much of two generations working extrememly hard to ensure the place of Maori in society and environment.

[stef]

Don has lost the plot. One of the reasons that people come to New Zealand is because of the Maori culture element here and AS WELL AS the european culture. Vistors get to see somethign new and different with things like the wihi and then they get to have a latte afterwards. It's culture light.

[Craig Ranapia]

Aj wrote:
If the shoes fits....

I reply:
In my case, it would be a size 8 - and it takes about the same number of IQ points to delude yourself that comparing someone to Hitler is a debating slam-dunk. I hope you're merely terrifyingly ignorant of history, because that can be changed.

I used to be quite fond of calling left-wingers Stalinists until I had a copy of Robert Conquest's 'The Great Terror' (literally) thrown at me. It really exposed the intellectual and moral poverty of trivially invoking the name of a man responsible for the death of tens of millions for the sake of a cheap - and lazy - put-down.

Stef:
Oddly enough, I don't think my culture and traditions are a bit of jolly ethnic colour between shopping for a wooly jumper and chardonnay and kumara chips for lunch.

[tim barclay]

I do not think Don's comments has helped matters much for National even tough I agree with the sentiments. Having a semi naked man in an aggressive stance poking his tongue out as a greeting really needs to change. At best it is odd at worst it is damn rude.

[david@tokyo]

Paul,

With such a barrage of rhetoric and insults, you seem perfectly equiped to become a future Minister of Conservation (^_^)
Maybe you too could follow in Chris Carter's steps and get internationally recognised:
http://www.iwmc.org/whales/iwc56/040722-special-01.htm
http://www.iwmc.org/whales/iwc56/040722-special-02.htm

You are right though - to some people in the world, there are greater things in the world than money - food security being one of these things.

If you think whaling for food is a big money industry, you'd be grossly mistaken. The whale oil industry is dead already, and along with it industrial demand for whales. Put it in perspective: whale meat sales in Japan, the world's largest whale meat market, only come to about 50 million USD (I could be a few million out), whereas Greenpeace US alone makes more than twice that in annual donations. The Japanese government is actually subsidising the research programmes, because they run at a loss. Commercial venture? Maybe if you are into irrational business practices, something the world's second largest economy isn't so well known for.

Anyway, I'm not going to convince you about anything on a blog - if you can be bothered you could sure convince yourself though if you give it some time.

Here's a little food to get your thoughts going:

How come, after 18 years of apparent "commercial whaling in disguise", has Japanese research whaling not driven the Southern minke to extinction? And at what rate would the Japanese need to hunt them in order to drive them to extinction?

[Paul]

Tim

its the fucking cultural practise of Maori (the indigenous people of the country), it's not rude or odd.

You know the ones. they're the dark skinned people that we milk for millions of Dollars when we want to present a unique cultural face to the outside world.

Are you people all completely mad, this is a culture of a people you are all having a go at?

How can anyone with a sane brain even think what he is saying is anything but complete and utter bullshit that needs attacking.

Have you ever experienced anything cultural in your life, Africa, Canada? Smoking a peace pipe, dancing in circles, they are all weird, but they are cultural practises of Indigeous people.

[stef]

Craig - Then the question has to be asked as to why so many people are so keen as to make money off of your culture by providing these services and why it's featured so frequently on just about all the tourist crap about New Zealand that's shown here in Korea.

[Paul]

Nice baiting mate, I'm not biting, I don't support whaling in any way shape or form, extinction theories of not.

Like Tim and his assertions that NZ will become a nice warm place to live under global warming, I'm sure NZ will be a richer place without our whales.