« Benefit numbers down, wages up | Main | Well... »

Tuesday, 09 May 2006

Comments

Aj

With the Republican Party falling apart under the weight of incomptence, lies, and corruption, New Zealanders can be thankful that their influence didn't count for zip. The more moderate members of National must be wondering what is happening to their party.

sagenz

cullen is a foriegner. so is duynhoven. are you really such a dopey prick or are you just stirring. why bother with this kind of shit, I mean really.

So the national party was thinking about employing some foriegn advice. Mallards implication was that National Party policy was being written by the US government. What a prize dick you are being with this post

talk about going into the gutter. this is below that.

tim barclay

What absolute tripe. There you are trying to improve the relationship with the US through trade and defence ties. And then you demonise the us at home. What is seriously wrong with Brash getting political advice from US strategists. Is the Labour Party scared Brash will get strategic advice from the Republicans who have smashed the Democratic Party.

mikeybill

What is wrong is the way Brash dissembles and evades, giving the impression that he is in fact an oily two-faced lackey of foreign powers.

Craig Ranapia

And what were you doing in Sydney in the week leading up to, and including, the last federal elections? Really, my dear, when Labour has to sink to using Winston as the designated shit-flinger it's a sign that you've scraped the bottom of the septic tank.

And would Labour like to go on the record and assure New Zealanders that every campaign donor, volunteer and staffer was a New Zealand citizen or permanent resident? That Helen Clark did not discuss politics in her off the record dinner with Alistair Campbell last year? Or that Labour observers at the British and Australian election - and the 2004 Democratic convention - were just there for the buffet and open bars?

OTOH, there's some hope for you: The mealy mouthed, passive voiced qualified-into-oblivion post convinces me you don't believe a word of it either.

Graeme Edgeler

You think that delivery pamphlets is an election activity but delivering pledge cards isn't?

sagenz

I just twigged - you guys are really concerned about all the genuine scandals engulfing the labour party and have figured attack is the best form of defence.

just so your readers can see what the email said I will post it for you.

"Text of email tabled by Rt Hon Winston Peters 9 May 2006
When Peter Keenan and I were in the US last month, we met about 15 people over a lunch hosted by Julian Robertson in New York. Among those present were two guys who have been actively involved in various Republican campaigns and who have expressed a strong interest in helping with our campaign in New Zealand after the elections in the US are over. As you will see, they have suggested that one of them visit New Zealand for a week between now and the end of August to discuss the issue. Their email arrived in New Zealand nine days ago and, through an oversight, is only just now coming to my attention. How do you react? They would probably be pretty expensive and of course have no experience of New Zealand.

Don
"

sagenz

It does not look at all like a couple of professional election strategists touting for business. No much more like the CIA infiltrating the NZ government. Oh sorry thats what the president of the labour party is supposed to say

libertyscott

Omigod - New Zealand politicians getting strategic advice from foreigners.

So scandalous - the Leader of the Opposition must go. The public will all condemn National at the polls.

It's ok to spend taxpayer money publishing pledge cards which simply describe what the "Government" will do for the next three years.

All you have it this:
"Yet today on the radio, he confirmed that there were Americans, paid by the National Party, to do campaign work" and "Maybe not strategy but campaign for sure." and "Sure these people probably did not write the policy ... They probably did not devise National's campaign strategy. but they were here".

Oh for fuck's sake take a cold shower - this isn't news. Yes I agree with you on policy flip-flops, but this is nothing. I trust Labour never had any American citizens involved in delivering a single leaflet from any electorate.

Pathetic beyond words.

che tibby

let's ignore whether the allegations are true.

what's really interesting is how up in arms national supporters get at the allegations, and how much interest it generates among voters.

perhaps that's reason enough for the nats to distance themselves from american money, should such money exist?

Insolent Prick

Jordan, have you completely overlooked the fact that YOU ARE CANADIAN by birth, and that you had significant involvement in Labour's campaign?

Expat

Why does Jordon want Brash to resign? If he thinks Labour are the best choice for government and Brash is a bad leader then why not call for Brash to stay thereby guaranting continued Labour victories? Does Jordon not trust Labour to rule appropriately without a strong opposition. If Jordon believed Brash to be so terrible he should be glad he is teh leader of National.

Michael

Just proves that Mallard tells so many lies he occasionally stumbles on the truth.

Neil Morrison

"let's ignore whether the allegations are true". How very Michael Moore.

Tony Milne

Oh dear. This has got the rights nickers in a twist.

Foreign involvement in a campaign in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's the fact that Brash told (repeatedly) a big flat lie to the NZ public that's the problem.

It's the impression people have that that funding influenced their policy promises.

Of course, these e-mails are nothing new. Everyone knew they were coming:
http://tonymilne.blogs.com/i_see_red/2006/02/dragons_den.html

And there are more (even more damaging ones) to come! I was saying so on my blog for some time - and I was also saying it would cost Don Brash the leadership of National.

Unfit to lead the National Party, unfit to lead New Zealand.

peter mck

you stupid pathetic desperate socialists - so desperate to get something on the nats after having the shit kicked out of you since October that this limp wristed wet wad is the best you can do - ha ha ha.

Spitting Llama

How utterly disgusting and vile. This is just another sick attempt to deflect from the innate corruption and scandals that are afflicting the Labour party.

Maybe pay attention to the Glorious Leader's half-hearted bashing of women's rights in her foolish attempts to discredit Colins? Maybe pay attention to the little disaster you're cooking up with Telecom? Or maybe with Fields before actually trying to indicate that something like

"How do you react? They would probably be pretty expensive and of course have no experience of New Zealand."

can be taken as American backing! Idiots. Don't those last two lines tell you that he possibly thought they were TOO EXPENSIVE and would have NO RELEVANT EXPERIENCE?

Guess not.

You guys make me want to throw up.

Craig Ranapia

Tony:

I understand you're working in the whip's office these days - don't you have slightly better things to do with you time than spread Winston's sleaze?

peter mck

whale oil has i nice little summary of this - here is the link - I am sure that Jordan knows this is just a pathetic diversion from all the well aimed and successful hits the Nats are scoring on a dying liarbour party. http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/?q=node/2577

Tom S


More to the point, recently we were inflicted with the astonishing sight of suddenly svelte(ish) Billy Bunter Brownlee (has he had styling advice? can anyone whisper "leadership bid?") rolly pollying on more than just the Bellamy's menu as he mused out loud on rapprochement with the clowns of the Maori Party, only to be subject to muffled rebuke from an invisible leader. Then we spy Mr. English, majesterial with a small "m," sonorously honking about the health system on the steps of parliament to assembled reporters with the same said Mr. Brownlee, looking like a prefect standing to attention behind his headmaster, hovering in the background. "What is this?" I thought to myself. "Where is the glorious cadaver that leads National? Perhaps he is in a Mexican clinic with Monty Burns, receiving the blood of virgins and other unspeakable and unholy medical treatments to keep his aging frame alive???"

NO! Don has been here all along, just shuffling along in his usual ineffectual way. So I think that Winnie and Trev are just doing National a favour by providing a bit of a strategic gentle nudge to National to help it jettison its useless baggage from the 1980's (AKA Don Brash) and indulge in about 12-18 months of blood letting between the Brownlee and English factions.

Mark

What worse getting two overseas Americans to help on your campaign

or use taxpayers money and break the electral law regarding election expense limit?

or have your campaign funded by an overseas billionaire?

Tom S

Oh - So, it is now crystal clear to me the right can dish out a constant stream of whinging smears but they can't take a taste of their own medicine.

Craig Ranapia

Tom S:

I'd get urgent psychiatric help for your fixation on Gerry Brownlee. Issues, dude...

Justin

Yeah, I hate bloody North Americans. Good work, Winston, for doing what you do best: whipping up and perpetuating small-minded, reflexive prejudices.

By the way, Jordan, who came up with the witty slogan we saw on footpaths (you North Americans call them "sidewalks") around election time?: "Winston for PM! Vote National!" I guess we're lucky he's only foreign minister under Labour. (You North Americans call it "Labor")

Craig Ranapia

Tom S:

No, I actually enjoy a bit of witty and insightful banter. You, dear, don't have a chip on your shoulder but a whole forest. For someone who claims to dislike 'whinging smears', it's hard to recall any comment you've made here - or anywhere else that have been anything else.

Did Gerry Brownlee fuck your girlfriend or do you just have some repressed homosexuality/fat fetish/necrophiliac thing going on? Welcome to the new world where the loony left is every bit as boring as the rabid right.

M'lud

It's fun to watch Jordan trying to weave a cloak of gold out of pure spun bullsh*t. Labour's used overseas consultants in the past, and do so again in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were "evil" americans. Only the Wgtn media care about this stuff, it isn't going to shift a single vote. However, when the Field inquiry comes back, with yet another whitewash, that will be a real issue.

Billy

So how does one drop pamphlets in a letter box in an American-imperialist fashion? Is it in how you cock your wrist?

M'lud

No, I think it's the swagger you use to walk down the street as you do it.

Hey Jordan, how about some commentary on Aussie's new (and vastly - cf New Zealand) superior income tax schedule, announced yesterday?

Tom S

Craig:

Q.E.D.

tim barclay

Bill English was making a play for the leadership no doubt, with Gerry at his side. Brash will have to prove he can handle this non-issue over the emails if he aspires to be Prime Minister. It is fairly easy stuff to handle. But if Brash is so useless why is the Labour Party/Winston going to such efforts to get rid of him??? So far as Bill English is concerned there is a significant body of opinion in the National Party who will not wear English as Leader, who afterall took the National Party to its worst ever defeat. It would be a huge risk to put him back there.

Tom S

Tim, its quite simple. The opposition in dissarray is good for the government. Particularly if that opposition's two factions are led by tow people who for various reasons could e construed as flawed.

Although I am a rabid and unapologetic leftie its a real concern to me that National is so out of sorts on up to date policy and acceptance of the dynamics that make New Zealand tick in 2006.

At some stage Labour will need some time in opposition to renew and to ensure that our democracy remains vigorous, For that to happen we need a credible alternative government - something we are seriously lacking at the moment.

Mr Drain

Wow, M'lUds proposing NZ putting its top tax rate to 45%.

AL

Do you think your behaviour is appropriate, Canadian?

Here is the dictionary definition of collusion:

"A secret agreement between two or more parties for a fraudulent, illegal, or deceitful purpose."

Craig Ranapia

Tom:

A more appropriate Latin tag for you would be, Canis timidus vehementius latrat quam mordet.

AL

Remember this, Jordan?

http://www.sirhumphreys.com/node/2250#comment-10168

The link goes to a transcript of Clark suggesting National Party policy is written in Washington DC. This occurred one month before Mallards public attacks claiming the same.

So this little anti-American idea all came from Clark, didn't it Jordan Carter. Come on, admit it. You're in a position to know. Why don't you try truth for once, rather than lies.

Mark

Jordans just trying to point out don't ever trust or believe someone from North American or a leftie.

Jordan

I guess I had to expect a bit of xenophobia being implied, since the people who make the generic right wing attacks are xenophobes at heart. It does make me laugh though.

Of course, I would welcome Don Brash getting campaign advice from the United States. (It would be better than the advice he seems to get from any locals!)

The problem is that he can't make up his mind whether he did or not. And he appears to have misled the public about the matter, with amazing faux indignation and his very own characteristic pomposity.

In case anyone had not noticed, I am not the leader of the Opposition and I have given no undertakings about my activities or suggestions to the public.

And I can assure everyone for the record that I can take no responsibility whatsoever for the strategy of the Australian Labor Party during their 2004 Federal Campaign! I simply went over to drink vodka, catch up with mates and deliver some pamphlets - because John Howard is a loathsome Tory cretin and I would love to see him lose an election.

As for the rest - y'all could not have shown a better proof of your own

a) nervousness at these matters being raised, and

b) anger, bitterness and testiness at having lost yet another election.

Did it ever occur to any of you that winning power off us might require, at the least, some connection with reality?

No, I didn't think so...

Mike Heine

It is time for Brash to resign as Leader of the Opposition.

Why? Because he hired a couple of Americans? Oooooo, Americans are coming to get you!

Honestly, why is it okay for the Left to display racism and prejudice and no one else?
No one moans about Labour having a Muslim MP (except for his total uselessness)... and if I was to trash him and every other Muslim based on how much damage their terrorist friends have done in the world I'd be called all sorts of names.

david

The tactic reaks of desparation on Labours part. If this is all you can come up with you are truly stuffed. Its so funny to watch Helen scramble. hahahahahahaha

Jordan

I suggest you save your laughter til the next political poll, myself. You'll be laughing on the other side of your face, methinks.

Mike - what's racist about pointing out Don Brash's inability to tell the truth? Could you explain, please?

david

The only poll which counts will be at the next election. In the meantime we are having immense enjoyment watching the farce labour has become. It is hilarious and the funniest thing is you think this is good government.

Carl Anderson

This whole "debate" has been quite hilarious.

For months, the right have been dredging up a variety of "scandals" based on more or less dubious bases.

Now when the same sort of thing is done by labour, the outrage is overwhelming.

Personally I doubt there is much in this episode, but most of the accusations levelled against Labour have been no better.

I guess it is frustrating to enter one's third term in opposition, with no apparent prospect for entering government.

And as far as the only poll that counts being that on election day; quite right. You might wish to review the results of the last three such polls.

Red

ok let me point this out very very clearly Jordan is attacking Brash because HE MISLEAD PEOPLE OVER AMERICAN INVOLVMENT IN NATIONAL.

He IS NOT attacking the involvement he is ATTACKING THE LIE.

my god I am constantly amazed at the spitting and scratching that goes on here. I wonder why Jordan puts up with until I realise these comments are EXCACTLLY the reason people don't want the right anywhere near power... look at yourselves... really just look

you'll give yourselves ulcers!

che tibby

and, to add to what Red said, the big news today?

tax cuts in australia.

of course, you all have been too busy accusing people of being racist, and bleating about a diversionary tactic by winston.

a successful tactic, i might add.

no wonder you'll never form a government.

Aj

Red bet me to it -
I've read the posts here and the right wing to a man {& woman?} they are missing the point. Perhaps there is someone that hasn't but I missed it.
Don has mislead people. Oh - but its probably ok if Don does it.

Tim - so, the repubilcans have smashed the democrats Let's count a few other things they have smashed...

100,000 Iraqi men, women, children.
2,400 USA troops, 20,000 grevious injuries.
The American Constitution.
The rule of Law.
Sound economics.

I hope you are not proud of those acheivements.

sagenz

GW & the republicans have democracy for 50 million people to be proud of.

The war in iraq was a lesser evil than leaving saddam and the taliban in power

Oh sorry you socialists prefer autocracy

sagenz

Mallard "But I think New Zealanders expect foreign policy to be written in Wellington, not Washington."

He refused to say whether he was referring to the Bush Administration but said "the campaign structure and the campaign lines are being run by people who are based in the US". "

dont spin this particular piece of bullshit as brash lied. He did nothing of the sort. he considered using a couple of american electoral helpers. so what. clearly mallard lied.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

June 2012

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30