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Thursday, 19 October 2006

Comments

toms

My view is "third way" politics is on close analysis a crock. It is a vehicle that has allowed the left to gain power when Thatcherite politics had skewed the debate so far to the right that the middle was completely out of kilter, but I don't think we should for a minute delude ourselves that it constitutes a coherent left wing response. The third way to me was and has always been a means to an end, about pragmatism and the art of the possible and about gaining power to pull the middle ground back to centre so a proper left dialogue can resume.

Labour has had seven years now. The right has presented us with a golden opportunity with this election funding row to reform party and election funding to permanently level the playing field of ideas by stopping the new right money juggernaut that seeks vehicles to buy so it can implement its policies without regard for the wishes of the electorate. If we can ensure the debate is about good ideas and policy from across the spectrum and not simply a procession of paid for business friendly policies, then we can discard the fig leaf of the third way and actually have the courage of our convictions to openly and proudly argue progressive, left wing policies without fear of being crushed by an avalanche of corporate dollars.

Gerrit

Interesting summation.

The vote is in the centre (either centre left or centre right) and any party straying too far away from the centre will not be elected. You could certainly try and gently slide the populace into the left or right ideology but history shows it will always swing back the other way.

While you concentrate on policy shifts you are forgetting the cult of personalities. Either party can swing the centre around their view by the persona of the people they put up to represent them.

Tom, "courage of our convictions to openly and proudly argue progressive, left wing policies without fear of being crushed by an avalanche of corporate dollars"

Any examples of how the avalanche has smothered left wing policies? Could it be more likely that those left wing policies were unpallateable to the voters?

In the centre the vote will stay because people like the security of having a public support safety net (left wing) while enjoying material gains and personal freedom (right wing)



neil morrison

For me the third way is a recognition that balancing "social justice and economic development" is actually a very difficult thing to do. The traditional Left view was that social injustice is simply the result of Evil Capitalists and so the solution must be equally simple. But it's not. There are many competing social groupings within any society, balancing their competing demands is not straight forward - eg the current debate on herceptrin.

rightkiwi

What you say here may have had something to it 1999-2005 but the current Government has no policy programme at all, as you well know and no doubt lament. The only policy programme are UF and NZ1's corporate tax cuts. There is no social policy legislation, no climate change policy, no education policy, no health policy .... just managerialism for its own sake, and increasingly incompetent management at that. It feels like the Shipley Government - after strong policy making and reform (whether you agree with it or not) in the early 1990s, by the late 19990s there were no energy or ideas left at all, just increasingly silly "packages" of minor changes to this or that. Interestingly, the common factor is Winston Peters, a man with no ideas or ideals. Perhaps once he is thrown into the mix, the life simply drains from any Government, right or left.

Peter Cresswell

An interesting analysis, Jordan. I've used your own analysis to compare and contrast your Third Way with US Neoconservatism -- you may be surprised at the results, but I doubt that any of this thread's commenters so far would be.

I invite you to take a look: 'How the New 'Left' and the Authoritarian 'Right' Meet in the Authoritarian Middle.'
http://pc.blogspot.com/2006/10/how-new-left-and-right-meet-in.html

Jordan Carter

I'll have a read post-exams, Peter.

Rightkiwi - I don't think that is an accurate summation at all. What is perhaps different is that much of the current policy programme was announced last year during the campaign, or is the continuance of programmes started earlier in the government's term. There is no point in making policy for the sake of it, and a busy government constantly flashing out new policies isn't necessarily the best.

Jordan Carter

Cheers Span - will come back.

JC

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