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Tuesday, 08 May 2007

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Comments

Jenny Campbell

Jordan, why don't you open your other items for comment?

Whaleoil

Because he is a sook and had a tanty.

Jordan

Jenny - see the post on comments policy. Mainly because of the nature of comments like the one immediately below yours. :)

Span

Whaley, kindly refrain from proving Jordan was right to close his comments and engage civilly on the point at hand.

For those interested, there is also a fund you can donate to, to help fund the legal costs of this case. The Autonomous Workers Union, which Lang is a member of, is far from well-heeled and could do with some dosh to cover lawyer-y stuff as it looks like this is headed to the Employment Court on the employment matter, and the District Court on the stealing charge.

Here's a link to info about how to donate:
http://www.epmu.org.nz/SITE_Default/news/union_news/2007_04_27_Subway.asp

burt

Well done Jordan, keep up the great work.

Andy Moore

Can we really support a boycott until we've heard the whole story? I'm not. I want to hear what the employer has got to say. The media's going to spin the whole case in the favour of the worker, aren't they.

There's a whole lot of points that if brought to our attention might change our perspective on the whole issue.

Jeremy Naylor

Good work Jordan - keep it up!

Craig Ranapia

Jordan:

To be blunt, does anyone understand what the phrase 'independent owner-operated franchise' means? And here's something else to think about: Perhaps the appropriate mechanism for settling employment disputes is the Employment Court and the rest of the industrial relations framework? Trial by media can cut both ways, folks.

rjs131

"The Autonomous Workers Union, which Lang is a member of, is far from well-heeled and could do with some dosh to cover lawyer-y stuff as it looks like this is headed to the Employment Court on the employment matter"

How much does that union give to the Labour party then??

And unfortunately the first call of the matter would be in employment relations authority. Damages will also be an issue - i am sure she will have no problem finding a new job (unless she wants to be reinstated) therefore likely damages will only be for stress etc... and it could be aruged that she has added to her stress by going to the media.

Jordan Carter

Craig - the industrial law is where the matter will be settled.

The purpose of public protest is rather wider: to remind corporates that there are issues of public reputation at stake when they allow their brands to attach to what appears to be unsavoury employment practice.

I think that's worth doing. Which is why I am supporting the boycott.

Mike

The AWU gives nothing to the labour party or even to the CTU: it is a small, independent ("Autonomous" - get it?) left-libertarian union that believes in getting things done through direct action and solidarity. Also the company has had weeks to settle this but decided to set the cops on Jackie as a way of scaring her out of mediation. Think about it - if Subway had a case their spindoctors would've put it to the public by now.

Sam

I'm not sure why you would even eat at Subway anyway?

tim barclay

This is childish. Lynching a whole franchised chain because of the actions of one independant franchisee is typical of the Labour Party except when they have a problem with one member being a crook. Does that mean the whole party should be lynched. Well yes it does.

span

Good to see you've learnt how to spell lynched tim, even if you are repeating yourself from your I See Red comment.

Riddley Walker has made a good point about this - part of the branding of these chains of franchising is about consistent high standards in service, product, etc. Why should the etc not include employment practices? You can bet your bottom dollar Subway gives each franchise owner at the very least a manual on good employment practice, if not extensive training.

Besides, it's quite common to put pressure on/lobby multiple groups to get what you want. Or perhaps some people don't understand collective action.

James Leadbeater

Can we really support a boycott until we've heard the whole story? I'm not. I want to hear what the employer has got to say. The media's going to spin the whole case in the favour of the worker, aren't they.

Ah, there is no case from the company - that's why they haven't put it and have flatly refused to debate the issue in the media.

tim barclay

Span you sound like a ghastly school teacher who know nothing about anything except on how to spell and who like to treat everyone like their students. Yes I know, my hang-up about school teachers. But I do loathe them.

Span

And that would be relevant to the point at hand how Tim? It may be a pretty mild flame, but it's a personal attack all the same. I'm not going to be crying into my weetbix about it, but you might want to stop giving Jordan yet more reasons to close comments...

tim barclay

Span you did not deal with the point I was making which is why blame a whole franchised chain for the actions of one independant operator who has full control over their indsividiaul employment practices. That is my point. Instead you make a snide remark about my spelling - hence my school teacher remark.

span

So then Tim you admit you didn't read past the first line of the comment I made at 3.19pm? You may not agree with my two points rebutting your point about the franchise thing, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to say I didn't address it at all and merely pointed out a pedantic spelling mistake.

And once again we end up talking not about the actual point of the post but the nature of the comments on the post. Yawn.

Craig Ranapia

Jordan:

I'm not your mother, or your significant other, so you can eat where you like, for whatever reason you like, and that's your to do. (But I will insist you eat your veges.) :)

But I don't really see what message I'd be sending by boycotting independent franchises in Auckland - who, for all I know, are the very paragon of good employers. And what do you think happens first in operations like this when their business takes a sudden dive - workers get their hours cut, or they get laid off.

Personally, I've decided to donate the fee from the PA Radio piece I recorded yesterday to the AWU's fighting fund - Lang deserves her day in court(s), not only to have a proper defense against a theft charge I consider trivial and vexatious (to put it kindly) but to help ensure the individual employer concerned gets a well-deserved judicial spanking.

tim barclay

Span yes I note that. But you are wanting to force a franchised chain with independant operators to have a rule book on employment practices beyond what is in the law. I assume that is what you are wanting. In otherwords you want to completely rewrite the nature of the business relationship in a franchised chain. It will not happen. Basically it does not matter what a few business hating lefties think of this business, but I think David Farrar knows better, much better. He is developing red tinges.

Jordan Carter

Aside from the discussion between Tim and Span, this thread is fairly much a model of how comments could, I hope, work.

Encouraging!

Jordan.

Craig Hall

Back when I was store manager within a fast-food franchise (not Subway), we had some general advice on employment issues, and a "model" employment contract to use if we wanted to, and that was about it. I don't know what Subway supplies, but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't much.

Clint Heine

Oh Jordan, how precious. If you REALLY wanted rational debate you would of had to have delvered something decent that didn't just come out fresh from the Labour smut machine.

You reap what you sow.

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