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Thursday, 26 February 2009

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Comments

sagenz

A reasonable post let down completely by a fundamental failure to accept reality. "The Government sector needs to spend more now".

Why???

The Government needs to lead the way in saving and investing in long term infrastructure. Not current consumption spending.

Justify your comments regarding how reducing private sector consumption by saving differs in any way from government also needing to constrain spending.

Cullen achieved surpluses by excess taxation, not constraining spending. This government should not compound the error.

George Darroch

Labour destroyed NZ's manufacturing industry by cutting protection, National followed with glee, and then Labour signed away free trade agreements which further ballooned the deficit.

It's not like no-one said these things. But Labour was not interested in listening, as the current account deficit ballooned and ballooned on the back of housing speculation, oil imports and plasma bloody TVs. Cause these were needed to balance the electoral calculus. These structural problems weren't going to solved by Kiwisaver (laudable though it is), and certainly not by borrowing billions to put into foreign companies.

Is Labour serious about moving away from mad neo-liberalism?

Jordan Carter

George: there are two ways of thinking about the current account. One is to consider the trade side. The other is to consider the investment side. If we saved enough and owned enough assets overseas, we could afford to buy all the tat.

I also don't see why a fortress NZ approach on the trade side would help. All the evidence is that those countries that rely on import substitution do less well than those who rely on export promotion, which requires competitive export industries that aren't consistent with closed import markets.

Labour did gut the manufacturing industry by deregulating badly. But a long run trend to freeing up the fortress economy started in the 1960s.

My concern is not what we do here, per se: though I have a support for manufacturing, that's not the topic of this thread. It is the lack of savings that is the bigger issue and overconsumption compared with our incomes. We could have as much manufacturing industry as we wanted but it would not help us if we don't save more: it would all just be owned offshore.

I'll talk about economic structure in another post later.

Sage: It's total economic orthodoxy both to let automatic stabilisers work or to enhance them in a recession (thru increasing the govt's fiscal impulse). If everyone in the economy starts saving at once, then aggregate demand falls through the floor. We would end up with unemployment at four or five points higher, and a much sharper downward correction in GDP, than otherwise.

That's why we need short term stimulus, and the government's accounts per se can sustain this. The problem is that the private sector for dozens of years has been borrowing and borrowing and borrowing, creating an external constraint on what the government can do.

Everyone's doing it, and in this case, everyone's right. Our special problem is our longer term savings problem, which is extreme, and needs to change.

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