Democracy isn't voluntary

David Farrar has a post arguing for voluntary student membership of student associations - highlighting a couple of things the Victoria University Student's Association has done recently as a reason.

Of course - the alternative is simply to vote off people you don't like or who do things you don't agree with and vote in a new team or new people.  Sounds so hard doesn't it.

Instead he advocates for student associations to become voluntary.  The equivalent of course is the public refusing to pay their taxes when the Government does something they don't like.

Comments

[libertyscott]

Tony that is absolute bollocks, student unions are not like some arm of government, they are associations no different from a political party, industry association, trade union, environmental group, sports club or the like. This same old tired argument gets trotted out time and time again.

Governments have a monopoly of the use of legalised force against citizens. This is typically used to protect citizens from each other and from invasion. Local government has specified devolved statutory responsibilities regarding the enforcement and operation of certain laws (e.g. RMA, dog laws, food premises).

Student unions do not by any stretch of the imagination carry out any statutorily defined functions or have a legal right to use force in any way - except to force students to belong.

I don't "belong" to the New Zealand Government, nor Wellington City Council or Wellington Regional Council. All those entities have legally defined powers related to my behaviour in public places and the use of my property, student unions have none of the sort (all the powers they have are private property rights).

There is a fundamental human right of freedom of association. That means if I don't want to belong an association because I do not want it to represent me (which is the core function of student unions), then I shouldn't be forced to. Whatever other services student union's provide can largely be rationed by showing a membership card, or other techniques that, remarkably, virtually all other voluntary associations manage. For example, associate membership just to use certain facilities and not cross subsidise the political activity.

I know the left pined for compulsory trade union membership after the Nats abolished it in 1983 and again in 1991, but it is no different.

Yes members can vote, but why should one vote in an organisation that you don't believe in, that you don't want representing you, and which doesn't deliver what you want.

The truth is that student associations oppose voluntary membership because they are scared shitless that most students would rather keep the money than support a student association if they use few to none of the facilities, and don't agree with the fringe Marxists who run the show.

Of course Marxists have never been known for their belief in individual rights.

[Graeme]

Tony - you don't really believe this do you? I mean this seriously.

I can see that you might think that membership would be a great idea, that compulsory membership too is a great idea, that compulsory membership of a students' association is a reasonable and proportionate limit on a student's right to freedom of association. These are all positions an intelligent reasonable person could reach.

But to think that a student's membership of a students' association is akin to citizenship ... how can you possibly reach that conclusion

[or have I read too much into this? perhaps you think that arguing that choice X or Y made by a particular students' association isn't a good reason for voluntary membership - although freedom of association-type arguments would be, even though you may disagree with them]

[Clint Heine]

Tony Tony Tony - you are using the same tired old NZUSA lines and they do not wash. Citizenship of a country is not the same as being forced to join a student association.

It's crazy that a student is forced to pay for student media, subsidised food, political campaigns etc etc in order to get a degree.

Now unless you're very naive or you didn't go to University, but "simply" voting people off a student association is almost impossible. SA's are inclined to support left wing parties meaning that students are forced to fund activities they may not support. More students voted against Labour than for them but have been forced to support their SA and NZUSA who have actively supported left wing parties for many decades.

VSM isn't about destroying a SA, it is about not forcing others to be (mis)represented by others. Why should anybody be forced to join one at all when the purpose of Uni is to get a qualification?