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Friday, 22 April 2011

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TidgeH

Hear bloody hear. And articulated much more diplomatically than I'd have managed :)

Dylan

I found this very vague and annoying to read but I'll start with this...

You criticize Chris for looking to the past
'I wish he would join that bigger fight instead of turning his face to the past.'
Only to then look to the past yourself
'Labour would never have won in 1999, nor won two further terms, if it had tried to practice a politics built around an imagined backward looking culture war.'
And the article you brought up to criticize nostalgia looks back 1 year when your asking us to look back like 10 years in this paragraph.

Dylan

And this point

'Our party has always been at its best when it is facing the future, and building a politics that solves the problems people face today and tomorrow.'

One problem people face today and tomorrow is finding employment. Does the fact that this problem is being faced today and tomorrow mean it was not faced in the past? No, it has been around for a very long time. So would it not be smart to look to the past to see how that problem might have been solved before? Is that not how anyone learns lessons ever.

How about the fact that our GDP per capita compared to the Australian and OECD average has been decreasing ever since 1984? Do you think it's not then worth taking a look at the year 1984? Especially since economic performance is good for this social equality your talking about, it means more businesses and more business confidence and therefore more employment, higher wages and standards of living, more tax revenue to pay for benefits, it means everyone being better off.

Dylan

And this 'One of the biggest shames of what one might call a nostalgic social democrat...'

I would say one of the biggest shames of a modern social democrat is going on endlessly about values and not about the methods to achieve those values and explaining those methods sufficiently. You say we can achieve social equality by looking at the problems of today and tomorrow but you don't even say what the problems of today and tomorrow are or how to fix them... you say 'connecting with the communities we claim to represent', Labour's been doing that for a long time and you claim we can't look to the past... and you don't say how we can connect with those communities... there is nothing constructive in this blog.

Tell us, Mr Future man, what are the solutions for the problems of today and tomorrow. We are already looking at the problems for today and tomorrow, they are the things like high prices of necessities and low levels of employment, the things that are hurting our standards of living and widening the gap between the rich and the poor. That is what needs to be solved to achieve this equality that your talking about and if all you have to offer is that it's got something to do with looking forwards then at least explain that relevance properly...

millsy

Well Jordan, Labour could start by promoting more involvement in the economy by co-operative and community owned enterprises...

Provides that third way feel without being too private/corporate or too statist.

If its good enough for fonterra, its good enough for everyone else...

Jordan Carter

Dylan - there are a whole lot of posts about the issues you raise on this blog already. You're welcome to criticise me but you could at least see what I have already talked about before assuming I haven't dealt with the subjects you raised.

Millsy - it's an interesting idea. I've got no problems with it. Question is, what should the Government do about it?

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